4:3 anamorphic!

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4:3 anamorphic!

Postby NewDeep » 05 Jun 2013 18:26

I came across a DVD that has the movie in 1.33:1 ratio, but coded anamorphic!
That's how they've done it :: they've letterboxed the movie so that the 4:3 ratio movie is on a wider frame, and then done it anamorphically!
And the title?
It's http://dvdcompare.net/comparisons/film.php?fid=4503#5 :: R2 SE United Kingdom - (ITV DVD) of "African Queen (The) (1951)"

Shall post a "correction" request too, so that "Picture Format: Non-Anamorphic" on http://dvdcompare.net/comparisons/film.php?fid=4503#5 can be corrected to "Picture Format: Anamorphic" with a note...
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Re: 4:3 anamorphic!

Postby Nigel_Badnell » 05 Jun 2013 22:11

Can't really get my head around this one. :-?
Are you saying it's been cropped top/bottom?
Or that it's been pillar-boxed? (Black bars added to the side.)
What is the nett effect on the effective resolution?
I only own the blu-ray. (I also have a number of anamorphic blu-rays,
at least that's what their packaging claims. :lol: )
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Re: 4:3 anamorphic!

Postby NewDeep » 06 Jun 2013 02:39

No there's no cropping. The 4:3 picture has been letterboxed on all 4 sides with black borders so that there is no cropping when viewed on TVs that have any amount of overscan as factory-setting. The horizontal bars are different in size from the vertical bars. I think, with this pillarboxing, the resultant frame is something like 1.85:1 or bigger.

Then, the anamorphic encoding has been done on the resultant frame -- the result is that when you play this on your 16x9 TV, through 16x9 settings on DVD player, the "enveloped 4x3 movie" picture appears with black borders on left and right sides (but not on top and botton), and does not get distorted on the 16x9 screen (as a 4x3 encoded movie would have, by "stretching"), instead, appears crisper (and slightly larger) than what would have been possible through a non-anamorphic encoding of the same movie played with 4x3 settings. Hope you got it.
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Re: 4:3 anamorphic!

Postby Jim_Mcdonaugh » 06 Jun 2013 09:43

I've seen it before. Such quality is never good.
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Re: 4:3 anamorphic!

Postby Nigel_Badnell » 07 Jun 2013 20:42

Didn't Criterion go thru a phase like this?
(Don't recall if they were anamorphic though.)

Not sure how best to handle this...
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Re: 4:3 anamorphic!

Postby Paul Moran » 07 Jun 2013 22:58

Nigel_Badnell wrote:Didn't Criterion go thru a phase like this?

Sort of. They "pillarboxed" certain DVDs of Academy Ratio (approx. 4:3) films, but no anamorphic enhancement!
Intended to combat overscan on CRTs.
Showed a remarkable lack of foresight, as DVD Beaver kept on pointing out!
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Re: 4:3 anamorphic!

Postby NewDeep » 08 Jun 2013 05:56

2.35:1 movies that are presented non-anamorphically on a 4x3 frame, are noted on dvdcompare as:
Ratio: 2.35:1
Picture Format: Non-Anamorphic
Such DVDs are letterboxed, but we don't explicitly worry abt the letterboxing ;-)

In the same way, 4:3 movies that presented anamorphically on a 16x9 frame, can be noted as:
Ratio: 1.33:1
Picture Format: Anamorphic
Such DVDs are pillarboxed, and we needn't worry explicitly abt pillarboxing. We can add a note however.
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Re: 4:3 anamorphic!

Postby Nigel_Badnell » 08 Jun 2013 12:13

Anamorphic is always taken to mean improved resolution (for a widescreen image) over non-anamorphic
by utilizing the maximum storage of image information within the DVD standard, which can be
thought of as a 4:3 box and hence the view of squeezing the widescreen down to 4:3.
If you start with a 4:3 image you can't get any better. If you add a black border then you
have less storage available for the picture. Certainly, if you add a border and make it
a non-4:3 image then anamorphic enables you make the best of a bad job, but you can't
get better (or even the same) resolution as the original 4:3 without the border.
If you want to eliminate overscan, fine, but anyone who cares about that would just
get the blu-ray. The whole exercise seems pretty pointless to me (and DVDBeaver).
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Re: 4:3 anamorphic!

Postby NewDeep » 08 Jun 2013 14:04

hmmm...
One advantage is that folks need not re-adjust their DVD players to 4x3 for such a 4x3 movie, or their TVs from 16x9 to a different frame. And that I think is a big plus.

But, all said and done, it being anamorphic, we should mention the same in comparisons with a note.
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Re: 4:3 anamorphic!

Postby Nigel_Badnell » 08 Jun 2013 16:25

One advantage is that folks need not re-adjust their DVD players to 4x3 for such a 4x3 movie, or their TVs from 16x9 to a different frame. And that I think is a big plus.

On blu-ray players (well, mine at least) you can set 4:3 DVDs to be displayed automatically
with player-generated black sidebars (no adjustment needed between full and widescreen
viewing then) and with dot-by-dot display the overscan is eliminated. I think I'm with the Beaver
on this one. 8)

Anyway, I've added a note about it. It turns out that we had admin notes about the letterboxing
as noted by an Amazon reviewer, but there was no info on it being anamorphic - thanks.
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Re: 4:3 anamorphic!

Postby NewDeep » 08 Jun 2013 16:56

welcome!
so this is our first ever 1.33:1 anamorphic mention on dvdcompare,net.
Historic :drinking:
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Re: 4:3 anamorphic!

Postby Jim_Mcdonaugh » 09 Jun 2013 09:07

Such a fuss over nothing... amazing! :lol:
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Re: 4:3 anamorphic!

Postby NewDeep » 09 Jun 2013 11:23

In these boring times where cynicism rules the roost, at least some excitement :-D
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Re: 4:3 anamorphic!

Postby Jim_Mcdonaugh » 09 Jun 2013 16:12

Oh yeah, discussing some poorly mastered DVD. :lol:
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Re: 4:3 anamorphic!

Postby NewDeep » 09 Jun 2013 16:26

Yes, and good to see repeat audience such as you on such threads ;-)
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Re: 4:3 anamorphic!

Postby Paul Moran » 09 Jun 2013 21:57

It's only taken me 3 days, but I've finally remembered that the term DVD Beaver coined for putting a black border on all 4 sides of the DVD 4:3 frame was "pictureboxing."
I'm afraid there is much to discuss about this particular comparison. As with the Forbidden Games, The Virgin Spring and La bête humaine releases by Criterion (as well as Nanook of the North) the image has been 'pictureboxed' to overcome 'overscan' on commercially made tube television sets (can be up to a 15% loss of image and this is significant!). Pictureboxing leaves a black border around the edge of the image and most players automatically zoom-in to fill the screen - it limits resolution making the image slightly less detailed than it might be able to achieve. The benefit of pictureboxing is that it adds more visible viewing area so that the majority of DVD purchasers (most people own and watch through tubes) can see even more of what is on the negative - the way the film was meant to be viewed. DVDBeaver feels that equipment invariably improves at a much lower price and much faster these days and catering to people with inferior equipment can easily come back and haunt you when the hardware climate advances (it is doing so monthly). I'll wager that tube TV's are selling at at much lower rate than other viewing systems these days. We feel you will own your DVDs (especially your Criterion DVDs) much longer than you will own your current viewing system - I say this is true for myself having just purchased a plasma TV today! (I will still own my Criterion DVDs long after this brand new television is in the trashcan). The overscan problem associated with tube TVs can be corrected relatively inexpensively (incremental zoom DVD players, HTPC viewing, even some TVs now can zoom out to compensate etc.). In the early days of DVD, Criterion justified issuing non-anamorphic DVD editions feeling that player down-conversion was poor. DVDBeaver also feel this was an error on their part although this new issue has many sides - it is still up for debate and we welcome opinions. (in this review)


I think he reserves "pillarboxing" for the black borders that appear on left and right sides of a DVD 4:3 frame when the aspect ratio is narrower than 1.33:1, e.g. 1.19:1 for early silents.
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Re: 4:3 anamorphic!

Postby NewDeep » 10 Jun 2013 04:27

Yes Paul!
Also, what abt "windowboxing"?
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Postby Paul Moran » 10 Jun 2013 05:45

Same thing. DVD Beaver calls it "pictureboxing," others (including Wikipedia) call it "windowboxing."
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Re: 4:3 anamorphic!

Postby NewDeep » 16 Jun 2013 15:22

There seems to be a 2-disc DVD too of the restored edition from ITV...
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Re: 4:3 anamorphic!

Postby Eric_Cotenas » 04 Aug 2013 00:50

NewDeep wrote:welcome!
so this is our first ever 1.33:1 anamorphic mention on dvdcompare,net.
Historic :drinking:


Strand's DVD of Carlos Reygadas' POST TENEBRAS LUX is sort of like this. The OAR is 1.37:1 but it's framed in a 16:9 window but no vertical overscan mattes. I'm guessing Strand got an HD master (unlike earlier releases this one is not PAL-converted or just an interlaced encode of a progressive master) and didn't bother to crop the mattes away for a standard 4:3 encode.
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